CIVIL WAR: Whose Side Are YOU On !!!!!

>>Read it again carfully this time and do not repeat the rhetoric of having to check the sales figures or what my friends and I read.

Ahh - don't want any boring, smelly old FACTS to get in the way of your right to pontificate, eh???

Hmm - as I recall, the primary definition of "rhetoric" is "effective, persuasive use of language".

That makes it !!sound like!! you !!don't!! want your opponents to make sense or be good at arguing - I wonder why !*that*! could be...??? ;)

BUT it also is used by laymen to refer to either insincere or superficial arguments, so I suppose that's what you mean.

Either way it's an empty charge - you're just demanding I and everyone else here accept your unqualified, based-in-fact-but-not-really comments as valid because "everyone gets to have an opinion, so mine is just as good as anyone else's, right??".

CLUE #1

(NOW labelled for YOUR convenience!!!)

The above is only +half+-right - everyone has a right to an opinion, but when it comes to matters of fact, SOME opinions - specifically, those based on FACTS in evidence - are BETTER than others.

Your "opinion" makes a lot of statements clearly PRETENDING to be either directly factual or at least affected by or reflected by FACTS. Here, follow your own advice:

>>"I'll say it again...comics that are selling and gaining readers seem to be those out of the mainstream of the Superhero genre.

Strange Girl, GIRLS, Walking Dead, Necromancer, Wraithborne, CVO, and many others are gaining more and more readers daily and it seems that the poor old spandex hero is losing ground steadily.

Superman who has been around now for almost 70 years is beginning to lose a bit of ground, where as the Dark Knight seems to be holding pretty steady."

You offer these with NO QUALIFICATION WHATSOEVER.

You DON'T say "as far as I'M concerned".

You DON'T say "from what I can tell."

You DON'T say "me and friends all think"

Not even a LOUSY "imho".

Or ANYTHING that qualifies these clearly "hard" statements as anything other than your ATTEMPT to render facts.

So no, it's not MY mistake for PRESUMING, it's YOUR mistake for offering statements with such clearly definitive implications with ZERO qualifiers towards the idea it's nothing more than your OPINION.

IF you had, there'd be no argument here, just me pointing out this opinion is very far from sales reality.

Further, you can't even qualify these comments of yours as pure opinion (and therefore immune to debate), since their validity IS modified by facts.

EXAMPLE: You tout STRANGE GIRL as one of these up and coming titles, but the thing now sells less than 3000 copies per month (2800 for May according to CBG).

How the F%^$$ can the thing POSSIBLY be seen as "selling and gaining readers compared to superhero titles" when it's

a) definitely lost sales since issue #1 AND
b) outsold by frigging SPIDER-GIRL by SIX TO ONE????

Again - whatever you !meant!, this statement, as well as all the rest, is too mired in FACT to be "mere opinion" - IF the facts are correct (and they are) your statement(s) is(are) nonsensical, QED.

>>I'm talking more about what I'm hearing in the street (Obviously we don't travel the same roads).

BUT

1) you DON'T bother to mention that ANYWHERE in your original offering, we're just supposed to GUESS at it???

2) This is critical here - your statements are NOT IN ANY WAY scruffed off as "just my opinion and/or those of my firends" when you start tossing around ideas with real world implications, statements like

"There is more of a pull towards the non spandex crowd of heroes and such."

3) What you and your pals !!talk trash about!! and !!where the industry as a whole!! is at are two VERY different worlds, as trhe sales figures clearly indicate.

You can feel as blase' as you like about sales figures, but like it or not THAT'S where the REAL test is.

What you and your friends *think* is cool don't mean crap when your STATEMENT is "these non-superhero titles are gaining ground OVER superheros" (or words to that effect).

Whether or not you have the GUTS to ADMIT IT, your statements are clearly meant to have a "ring of truth that goes beyond mere fact", or however the hippy-sippy types are expressing their GOD-GIVEN RIGHT to ignore things like FACTS AND LOGIC these days.

You DON'T get to just lah-de-dah away the obvious implications of such declarations; IF you're right, the SALES should reflect it, PERIOD.

If and I do mean IF you had stuck with something purely subjective like

"whatever sales show, it's clear all the =artistically important= comics are these new titles"

or

"whatever the zombies are lining up for, it's clear all the =really good= stuff is to be found in these Fabulous New Versions of the Same Crap as Last Year",

I'd have no problem - what's "artistically important" or "really good" is hopelessly subjective.

But YOU have tied up your OPINION with FACTS - bad deal if your ideas are in direct oppposition to those facts.

>>But hey sales figures show what they will show,...

Yes, and what they show is the exact opposite of your OPINIONS, as I said previously:

- interest in superheros is up and on the rise,

- even the **lowest-selling** of the superheros you harangue (SPIDER-GIRL) does about **five times** the business of the top-selling non-superhero title you name

- which is to say these ideas of yours are MAYBE valid for the five guys you discuss this with and no one else.

>>Alarmist? No not really, but then again only time will tell.

Yes, your statements about the Abrupt and Terrifying Return of the Comix Apocalypse ARE indeed alarmist - you should !probably! look over the +definition+ of words before you deny their validity???

You might want to look up "subjective" and "factual" while you're at it - I promise it would do you a world of good.

>>I personally feel that within the next four years the spandex crew will be neck to neck with, if not just a little below newer titles that will shy away from the conventional super hero.

And I personally FEEL Jessica Alba and I are MEANT to be soulmates.

>>...time will tell what happens.

Yeah, that's what I say about me and Jessica. A LOT.

>>Hey Captain I hope it doesn't happen that way...

Really??? I sure WISH it would - if you recall, I pointed out my very strong interest in non-superhero fare in my first post.

>>... but again, only time will tell.

Yeah - like I said, I end up saying that a lot too , especially when people start laughing at my names for Jessica's and my kids
(what's so funny about "Daxam" and "Marvelo"???)

>>But the feelings of such a happening just can't be shaken off that easily.

Not by YOU. BUT

A) a LOT of people had "hard to shake off feelings" about the Impending Dooms of Y2K, Floridated Water, and Rock And Roll Music

B) they ARE easily laughed at and dismissed - by those with a lick of sense.